Manual labor sucks, and you shouldn’t let your children do it

There were a few comments critical of my previous post on liberal arts grads working on organic farms. They said I was looking down on people who do blue collar work, or something like that.

I’m not embarrassed or ashamed to say that I think that manual labor sucks, and I’m glad I don’t have to do it. Especially outdoor manual labor. If the prospect of doing hard labor in the hot summer sun or freezing winter isn’t bad enough, the pay also sucks. For this reason, agricultural work has to be one of the worst possible jobs, which explains why a lot of this work is done by Hispanic immigrants (both legal and illegal).

Of course I am aware that someone has to do this work, and also that more than half the people have IQs below 100 and aren’t qualified to do intellectual work, and wouldn’t enjoy such work anyway. I have nothing against blue collar workers, so long as they have middle-class values and not poor-people values.

I am aware that there used to be a social norm that teenagers and college students would do unskilled labor jobs after school and during their summers. That norm has changed a lot. Even back in 1981, John T. Molloy in his book Live for Success (which purports to give advice on how to become more upper class) advised you not to let your children work in such jobs, because they don’t learn any useful career skills and may even pick up lower class values towards work which would hurt them in the future rather than help them.

Today, the norm for upper-middle-class children is that they are busy building up their resumes with unpaid extracurricular activities [including sports] and internships. Upper-middle-class parents know what they are doing. If you want your children to have a shot at a good career, you should do follow their lead. College graduates without any experience in the field they wish to work aren’t highly valued, which is why those unpaid internships are important to create the impression that they have relevant work experience.

RESPONSE TO COMMENTS

Ted's comment in response to other comments:

HS's advice on preparing kids of high-end careers is spot on. Some posters here seem to prefer to wallow in their resentment of the upper class rather than plot methods of getting their kids into it.

Comments

[Richard Hoste hbdbooks.com]

You're absolutely right.

What is interesting to me is whether there are a lot of high IQ people who simply CAN'T do manual labor. As a teenager I tried working at a pizza place and MacDonalds. I was the worst employee there. I actually felt sympathy for low IQ kids, knowing that this is what they must've felt like in school. Blacks and Mexicans shook their heads at me. It was really traumatic (I scored in the 92nd percentile of the GRE; the closest thing I have to an IQ estimate). Sucking as a MacDonalds cashier probably doesn't hurt nearly as bad as sucking at reading and math do. Has anybody here had similar experiences?

[Peter]

"Today, the norm for upper-middle-class children is that they are busy building up their resume with unpaid extracurricular activities and internships. Upper-middle-class parents know what they are doing. If you want your children to have a shot at a good career, you should do follow their lead."

I'm quite sure that if you graduate from college with a degree in electrical engineering or pharmacy it won't matter one iota if you never did any unpaid internships.

--

As you might have guessed, I'm a big advocate for the benefits of hard physical activity, whether manual work or exercise. Everybody should try to do some at one point or another.

[Blazing Suth]

Having come from a much more working-class background; I find the idea of working for free a little ludicrous. Where would military service fall on this topic? Military service teaches/reinforces future-time-orientation, provides (relatively) free training, work experience for the resume, and money for college (for those not fortunate enough to have parents who can pay). It is also looked down on by upper-class families (except traditionally military ones), however it has a great number of benefits that are often overlooked these days. Speaking from experience, The military was a much better choice for me than college as I was not in the right frame of mind to put up with the type of professors I would have encountered in my chosen profession. I see it as having provided me with a paid internship.

[Kirk]

The below NYT article is somewhat related, as it makes the case for manual labor. However, in this case the labor is skilled.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24labor-t.html?_r=1&em

[Dr. Horsemeat]

The abandonment of summer and part-time jobs among teenagers and college students is one of the many turns in the downward spiral of American life. I find it difficult to identify with, much less sympathize with, any 18 year old who wants to work in a cubicle all day, in pursuit of the exalted goal of someday occupying an office all his own.

No wonder ours is a dying culture.

[superdestroyer]

Peter,

In medicine unpaid interships are called clinical rotations. Medical students, nurses, pharmacy students, etc all go through them. However, they get college credit for them. Of course, engineers go through coop programs. Many hospitals pay Nursing students for summer internships.

I worked as a delivery man during the summer in college and found the experience worth while. I had to be on time, plan the work, was the boss while on the road, and dealt with customers. Many business majors would be better off getting a job in sales or first line management instead o getting coffee and making powerpoint slides in cubicle hell.

Also, look at the experience ROTC cadets or reservist get going through military training in the summer. Manual labor and not that much academic learning.

[Peter]

The downside of all this is that summer jobs becomes one more area of society that is stratified by class.

In my sociology class in college at a fairly prestigious university I discovered by a show of hands that I was the only one who had worked at a fast food job before.

[HS: Exactly my point, you want your children associating with other upper-middle-class people and picking up upper-middle--class values, while insulating them from lower-class values, which is what they'd get from coworkers at a fast food place.]

[green bay]

Besides the obvious, what exactly are "lower class values"? Can you be specific and cite non-obvious examples of low class behavior and values?

[PA]

Male adults who have never had any exposure to physical challenges (sports, military, labor) in thier youth feel a lacking in their sense of manhood. This can trip them up later in life.

It might not come up on a resume, but men who have always had it easy will always fall short at a critical time. Like at important business negotiations, or when they feel an unexplained timidness before a vigorous subordinate, or when another man provokes him in front of his wife during their evening out.

[HS: Sports are highly valued on college applications, and thus a far better use of time than working at a low-wage unskilled job.]

[Mr. Foibles]

I spent my college summers as a line cook at a restaurant in the resort town where I grew up. It was extremely busy work in a hot kitchen. My coworkers were both "lower-class" types who did this for a career and "upper-class" types like me who were just there for the summer. It was pretty clear that the kitchen was a permanent hole for some and just a temporary stop for others, but we were all friendly with each other so long as everyone did their job correctly. Working in a restaurant can be very stressful and I think learning how to deal with other coworkers in a stressful environment is a valuable lesson. Partying with the other college kids after work was a helluva lot of fun too.

As far as getting an unpaid internship goes, that's a worthless experience in my opinion. If you want to get a real job when you grow up, you're going to have to go to grad school (or start your own business.) Grad students pretty much have to do internships during the summer if they want to have any realistic job prospects after they graduate. Fortunately, graduate-level internships are almost always paid (or at least counted as credit towards a degree.)

[Eric Johnson]

> Has anybody here had similar experiences?

Yes! I kind of sucked as a landscaping laborer during my first summer, and sort of sucked during my second summer. I was pretty woeful at the first deli I worked at, and at my second deli once got behind on defrosting bread, creating a massive pileup of customers. Most of the time I kept up OK, but only with plenty of effort.

Experience working landscaping with a bunch of wacky bachelor mexicans and insane hicks was pretty interesting. I certainly have some stories. The delis were less interesting. I think if I have kids I would want them to do the same if they were amenable. As for underclass standards, I would simply tell them not to absorb 'em. But I think it's probably good for an elite kid to meet and work with lifelong laborers, kids on a non-officer military track, etc, and do a dirty job.

[Peter]

"Male adults who have never had any exposure to physical challenges (sports, military, labor) in thier youth feel a lacking in their sense of manhood. This can trip them up later in life."

Case in point, me.
What completely sucks about the situation is that after the age of 30 or so, a man's opportunities to experience physical challenges are essentially zero. Team sports leagues for men that age scarcely exist, and giving up one's job to work in a manual labor setting or join the military just isn't a reasonable option in most cases.

[Alex]

I disagree with the post.

Do we need more nerdy, white, intellectual middle class kids who refuse to get their hands dirty?

Yeah, manual labour is mostly done by below-average IQ people, but that doesn't exclude above-average IQ people to participate in some basic sound work like mowing grass, planting trees or building fishing boats. Actually, it's very healthy, both for the mind and soul.

[PA]

As a younger guy I did all three: sports (in HS) military (enlisted, labor-heavy MOS) and manual labor. Today (30s) I am in a white-collar line of work and while I never put my experience hosing down garbage cans in the back of a restaurant, or smoothing out concrete in foundation-laying on my resume, I do feel a certain peace of mind that comes with having labored manually in my day.

It makes me talk to older, yuppier, senior VP types with more confidence. With some guys who went to Ivie Leagues and outrank me at work, I feel a sense of superiority that I suppress, while they slip up and defer to me in body language and conversation.

Manyal labor in my late teens and early/mid 20s has had a direct effect on my professional success. I would have been a lesser man if I had missed that part of my experience.

[ATC]

The word "prole" has disappeared from "Half Sigma's" postings. Who are you, impostor, and what have you done with the real HS?

[Ted]

PA: So your point is that you try to physically impose yourself in conservations with your "Ivie League" superiors?

If this became a problem I'd fire you for pulling shit like that. You sound like you have a big chip on your shoulder.

I bet your co-workers joke about you always telling war stories. I don't think I've ever met a male vet who was able to shut up about his glory days in the military. Female vets are much better at this.

[Ted]

I was good at and enjoyed my outdoor manual labor jobs in high school and part of my first college summer. I'd be very happy to go back to such work if it weren't for my darn greed and social ambition.

In particular it was good exercise and I slept really well, especially when I worked overtime. The older guys in my crew though all had various physical problems like bad backs and knees, and other than a few beer guts were mostly in great shape.

Sports are overrated for kids unless they have a lot of natural athleticism. Compared to the effort required, being a varsity HS athlete that isn't good enough for college teams is a pretty minor plus in college admissions, and not even worth putting on a resume.

HS's advice on preparing kids of high-end careers is spot on. Some posters here seem to prefer to wallow in their resentment of the upper class rather than plot methods of getting their kids into it. To each his own!

[PA]

Teddy, you are cute. What is it with commenters on this blog being so uptight and defensive? People are so much more fun at Roissy's blog.

I'm very relaxed and easygoing at work, including with my superiors. The point I was making earlier is that my experience in manual labor makes me comfortable in dealing with other guys.

I don't tell "war stories" at work. Most people I work with don't even know I've been in the military because the subject doesn't come up.

[Kirk]

"I don't think I've ever met a male vet who was able to shut up about his glory days in the military."

It sounds like you have an inferiority complex.

[I_Affe]

I worked in a factory for several summers during college. It sucked. It was very monotonous and mind-numbing. My coworkers were mostly decent working class guys, but the only thing I learned from it was that I should get a college degree in a field I find interesting so I don't have to spend decades of my life doing such a boring shitty job.

It literally gave me a strong back, however.

[Rob]

For girls, or boys with low testosterone and rich parents, Half Sigma's prescription to spend the extra time studying may work out fine. But for a restless teenager with potential to be successful - or a screwup - manual labor is a great way to convince them which road they want to go down. And women in that age group appreciate the tan and muscle definition that comes with manual labor. I'd stay away from fast food, but construction or landscaping or farm work are perfect outlets for the surplus energy of young men.

[blue anonymous]

It's fun to work for a small business, in my case a landscaping yard. That way you are highly likely to be doing tons of different stuff rather than one thing. You also don't get stuck constantly doing something ultra laborious such as laying sod. Doing mixed and interrupted labor is not so terrible for 8 hours; indeed you can do 10 hours on a lawn crew and come home pleasantly tired, because you spend a fair amount of time just riding around from job to job.

I also worked a different job for a nonprofit controlling invasive exotic plants, basically chainsawing 40 hours a week, always the same. This was a huge drag, boring as hell even though chainsaws are really fun in small doses, and I would come home every day absolutely dead tired, eat an enormous amount of food, and go into a coma.

[uselessidiot]

You mean manuel labor, right?

[bill r]

I disagree. A summer and a winter on a track gang for Union Pacific and two summers in a bakery both taught me a good deal about working and the persons who live that life. Watching & listening to their weekend behavior was even more interesting

Listening to my prep school friends bitch about white bread jobs was hilarious. I developed a physical appreciation for what "dangerous" and "hard work" meant. My son spends his summers in a warehouse, driving a fork lift. He is really happy when school starts again...

[Alex]

I agree with Bill, manual skilled labour is great. Unskilled labour might be more tedious as a long-term job, and that is why each one of us are specialized for different tasks.

http://www.corrupt.org/news/arbeit_macht_frei_truly

[chris]

Peter wrote:
"Case in point, me.
What completely sucks about the situation is that after the age of 30 or so, a man's opportunities to experience physical challenges are essentially zero."

I felt the same way, which is why I started doing MMA -- Muay Thai kickboxing and submission grappling -- combined with a lot of bicycling. You can be a paper-pushing office jockey and still feel like a bad-ass, and you'll find yourself not giving a shit regarding what any of your out-of-shape office mates think of you, regardless of their meaningless status within the office. You can kick their ass, so who cares.

[Anonybus]

"Case in point, me.
What completely sucks about the situation is that after the age of 30 or so, a man's opportunities to experience physical challenges are essentially zero. Team sports leagues for men that age scarcely exist, and giving up one's job to work in a manual labor setting or join the military just isn't a reasonable option in most cases. "

The sports over 30 thing is starting to change; there are tons of MMA schools opening all over the place, a great place for adults to practice real sports. In Russia, they had clubs for wrestlers and martial artists where people of all ages worked out.

Also, my advice regarding high-school sports: go out for sports like soccer, track, or tennis. Usually the players are more academic-minded. Avoid football, as you will develop BAD attitudes towards studying and partying. For all the bunk about football making men, it's BS; the football players are the most likely to drink and do drugs, and not study.